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Andrew Wilson vs Tim Pool - Heated Debate With Tim Pool on The Nature of GOD

The Crucible · Feb 27, 2026 · Panel debate · 0h 34m · Rubric v0.11 · Read transcript
Head to head · scored against the rubric, not each other

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The final scores. Press play: they reset to zero and assemble as the evidence lands.
PJ
Perceptual Jonathan
Live
:
CRUX—
CLEAN113W
DEALTN=0
TALK14T
Tim Pool
Live
51
CRUXN=9
CLEAN1,875W
DEALTN=9
TALK160T
Andrew Wilson
Live
86
CRUXN=13
CLEAN771W
DEALTN=13
TALK168T

The Stats

Every point, the score over time, and what the rubric recorded
Where each score came from · segment width is the weighted contribution
Andrew70Tim55
CRUX45%confronted the point · talked around it · evadedCLEAN30%logical fallacies · record denial · strawmanDEALT15%concessions · owned errors · common groundTALK10%interruptions · talking over
Every debater's score across the hour · dots are scored moments · click any dot to watch it
PJ
All points & topics debated
INTROThe debate hasn't started scoring yetIntroductions and framing · nothing charged or credited▸
Table of Contents
Every point, in order. Jump to any of them
Tim−4CLEANWilson's God is the atheist conceptionraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 13:58 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Wilson's account of God (bound by logic, describable via the universe) is functionally the atheist/Einsteinian conception of God. Defend or refute.
“I think you're an atheist.”Tim Pool · 0:00 · U-001 ▶
“But I'll just say this, it sounds to me like you're not a Christian.”Tim Pool · 4:01 · U-043 ▶
“I don't think you're a Christian.”Tim Pool · 8:51 · U-127 ▶
“No, they're physicalists.”Andrew Wilson · 13:58 · U-182 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson denies his account is the atheist conception, distinguishing his view (dogma) from atheist physicalism and the Einsteinian view. Reasoned denial.3.6DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×2 = 2 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3.6 DIS earned in full
“You're making the best case argument for atheism I've ever heard.”Tim Pool · 14:50 · U-193 ▶
Contesting opponent's identity in place of the argument Repeatedly Pool answers Wilson's account of God's nature by contesting Wilson's identity and sincerity as a believer ('you're an atheist', 'you're not a Christian') rather than engaging the claim. Charged at medium confidence. Mirror check: Wilson makes the reciprocal identity attack, charged separately.−4CLEAN
P8 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-001 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−2.5CLEANWhat theologians say about omnipotenceraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 15:14 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Priests/theologians affirm that God can do the logically impossible, or that claiming to know God's limits is arrogance. Defend or refute what they hold.
“Every single priest and theologian I've talked to has said the opposite.”Tim Pool · 15:11 · U-201 ▶
“No, none of them. Their dogma literally would prevent them from defying the nature of God.”Andrew Wilson · 15:14 · U-202 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson refutes Pool's empirical claim about theologians with a reason: that their dogma would prevent affirming a God more powerful than God.1.8DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 1.8 DIS earned in full
“No, they said the claim to understand the power of God is arrogance.”Tim Pool · 15:29 · U-203 ▶
Appeal to authority offered in place of argument Pool grounds the omnipotence claim on what the priests and theologians he has spoken to supposedly say, offered as the argument itself. Medium confidence. Mirror check: Wilson makes a countervailing empirical claim about theologians ('not a single theologian...') but pairs it with a reason ('their dogma literally would prevent them'), so it is not charged as a bare authority appeal.−2.5CLEAN
P22 · importance ×1 · raised by Tim Pool at U-013 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0Duties instantiate rightsraised by Clip/other · Andrew confronted it · at 2:58 ▸▸
THE CRUX: A God-given duty (not to murder/lie) necessarily creates a corresponding right in the other party: you can't have one without the other. Defend or refute.
“Duties aren't rights, right? ... that does not then instantiate that you have a right to not be raped by me. That's where you're making a fundamental mistake.”Andrew Wilson · 3:04 · U-036 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson refutes that a duty instantiates a corresponding right, arguing a duty not to rape does not entail a right not to be raped and asking where the right comes from.5.4DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×3 = 3 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 5.4 DIS earned in full
P11 · importance ×3 · raised by Clip/other at U-021 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0No rights, only duties (no right to life)raised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 5:31 ▸▸
THE CRUX: God's commands impose only duties, not rights, so there is no genuine 'right to life' (even a newborn has none). Defend or refute.
“there's no real right to life. You could die at birth, right?”Andrew Wilson · 5:38 · U-070 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson defends his own position that God's commands impose duties not rights, affirming there is no real right to life ('you could die at birth').3.6DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×2 = 2 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3.6 DIS earned in full
P12 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-070 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Andrew−6CLEANLogic is part of God's natureraised by Andrew · Tim confronted it · at 9:04 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The laws of logic (the Logos) are part of God's nature, so God will not act contrary to them and cannot create a contradiction. Defend or refute.
“Logic only exists within the confines of God's Word. God's Word is beyond your comprehension.”Tim Pool · 6:11 · U-081 ▶
Confronted the point Pool refutes the proposition that logic binds God, asserting logic is only internal to created reality and God stands outside it: a direct denial with a reason.9DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×3 = 3 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 9 DIS earned in full
“I don't think you're a Christian because you're disagreeing with me on the nature of God.”Andrew Wilson · 8:58 · U-132 ▶
“I don't think you're Christian. Okay, why? Well, this is all Christian doctrine.”Andrew Wilson · 10:38 · U-154 ▶
Contesting opponent's identity in place of the argument Wilson answers Pool's disagreement about God's nature by disputing whether Pool is a real Christian rather than the substance. This is the mirror of Pool's identity attack and is charged for symmetry, at medium confidence.−6CLEAN
P2 · importance ×3 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-082 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Andrew−6CLEANAndrew+7.5DEALTGod's nature is incomprehensibleraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 20:29 ▸▸
THE CRUX: It is impossible for a human to comprehend God's true nature, so asserting 'God cannot X' overreaches human knowledge. Defend or refute.
“I agree with you that I can only participate in the energy of God, but I cannot understand the essence of God. That I agree with.”Andrew Wilson · 8:43 · U-126 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson grants the essence of God is incomprehensible via the essence-energy distinction, then denies the conclusion that this bars all nature-claims, distinguishing revealed nature from essence. Engages the proposition, agreeing in part and refuting the overreach.5.4DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×3 = 3 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 5.4 DIS earned in full
“I don't think you're a Christian because you're disagreeing with me on the nature of God.”Andrew Wilson · 8:58 · U-132 ▶
“I don't think you're Christian. Okay, why? Well, this is all Christian doctrine.”Andrew Wilson · 10:38 · U-154 ▶
Contesting opponent's identity in place of the argument Wilson answers Pool's disagreement about God's nature by disputing whether Pool is a real Christian rather than the substance. This is the mirror of Pool's identity attack and is charged for symmetry, at medium confidence.−6CLEAN
“I'm not saying what the power of God is. I don't know exactly what the limits of all-powerful are.”Andrew Wilson · 15:34 · U-204 ▶
“Possible. I don't know, because I don't understand the limitation of all-powerful existence.”Andrew Wilson · 19:18 · U-264 ▶
Acknowledged uncertainty where a confident answer was available Pressed on omnipotence, Wilson twice concedes he does not know the limits of an all-powerful being, giving ground on Pool's incomprehensibility point where a confident assertion was cheaper.+3DEALT
“Neither do we.”Andrew Wilson · 20:29 · U-292 ▶
Named common ground and built on it Wilson explicitly grants Pool's core point that God's essence is beyond human comprehension, naming the essence-energy distinction and agreeing the essence cannot be understood, and again affirms 'neither do we' can know God's full nature. Genuine agreement given and built on.+4.5DEALT
P5 · importance ×3 · raised by Tim Pool at U-121 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Andrew−1.8CRUXGod is neither good nor evilraised by Tim · Andrew half-answered it · at 10:10 ▸▸
THE CRUX: God is neither good nor evil because he exists outside human moral comprehension. Defend or refute.
“can neither be evil nor good. That's you making a declaration that you understand the nature of God.”Andrew Wilson · 10:10 · U-146 ▶
Confronted part of it Wilson does not directly affirm or deny that God is beyond good/evil; he refutes it as self-undermining, arguing the claim is itself a declaration about God's nature. Engages the proposition by attacking its consistency.−1.8DIS
the math ▸importance ×2 × (1 − 0.5 earned) = 1 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −1.8 DIS
P9 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-139 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0Can God change the universe's rulesraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 11:42 ▸▸
THE CRUX: God can change the logical rules of the universe he created. Defend or refute.
“Well, no, that would be illogical.”Andrew Wilson · 11:38 · U-164 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson denies that God can change the universe's logical rules, calling it illogical and contrary to God's nature (the fire-isn't-hot illustration).3.6DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×2 = 2 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3.6 DIS earned in full
P4 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-163 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−3CRUXIncomprehensibility is itself a claim about Godraised by Andrew · Tim half-answered it · at 13:28 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Calling God incomprehensible/timeless/beyond logic is itself a claim defining God's nature, so Pool cannot avoid attributing a nature to God. Defend or refute.
“That's a lack of knowledge.”Tim Pool · 13:28 · U-175 ▶
Confronted part of it Pool rebuts that describing incomprehensibility is itself a nature-claim by recasting it as absence of knowledge rather than positive attribution. Brief and does not address Wilson's timeless/dimension examples.−3DIS
the math ▸importance ×2 × (1 − 0.5 earned) = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −3 DIS
P6 · importance ×2 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-172 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim+1.5DEALTThe creator must be uncreatedraised by Andrew · Tim conceded it · at 14:41 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The creator of the universe must itself be uncreated. Defend or refute.
“so if God was uncreated and God created, now we know something about the nature of God.”Andrew Wilson · 14:35 · U-188 ▶
“Certainly.”Tim Pool · 14:41 · U-189 ▶
Conceded Pool grants Wilson's proposition that the creator must itself be uncreated, affirming it and proceeding from the shared ground. Credited as common ground (E-A9).3DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3 DIS earned in full
Named common ground and built on it Pool grants Wilson's point that the creator must itself be uncreated and proceeds from that shared ground. Medium confidence, low-weight point.+1.5DEALT
P14 · importance ×1 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-186 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Andrew+3DEALTBoulder omnipotence paradoxraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 17:04 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Can God create a boulder so heavy he himself cannot lift it: i.e. does omnipotence include doing the logically impossible? Defend or refute.
“That's incoherent.”Andrew Wilson · 6:07 · U-080 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson denies that omnipotence includes doing the logically impossible, rejecting the boulder paradox as incoherent and grounding the refusal in logic being part of God's nature: a reasoned refusal the crux allows.5.4DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×3 = 3 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 5.4 DIS earned in full
“I'm not saying what the power of God is. I don't know exactly what the limits of all-powerful are.”Andrew Wilson · 15:34 · U-204 ▶
“Possible. I don't know, because I don't understand the limitation of all-powerful existence.”Andrew Wilson · 19:18 · U-264 ▶
Acknowledged uncertainty where a confident answer was available Pressed on omnipotence, Wilson twice concedes he does not know the limits of an all-powerful being, giving ground on Pool's incomprehensibility point where a confident assertion was cheaper.+3DEALT
P1 · importance ×3 · raised by Tim Pool at U-009 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−5CLEANThe universe is part of Godraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 16:33 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The universe (or its logic/logos) is a part of God. Defend or refute (Wilson calls this a Gnostic belief).
“The nature of God, as you described it, is the universe.”Tim Pool · 16:11 · U-207 ▶
“No, it's not the universe. The universe had a creator.”Andrew Wilson · 16:14 · U-208 ▶
“That's what you just said.”Tim Pool · 16:24 · U-213 ▶
“You're saying that because the universe is also governed by logical rules, that that means that it's part of God. That doesn't even follow.”Andrew Wilson · 16:35 · U-218 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson refutes that the universe is part of God, denying the inference from 'universe governed by logic' to 'universe part of God' and labelling the pantheist version Gnostic.3.6DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×2 = 2 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3.6 DIS earned in full
“So God is illogical?”Tim Pool · 16:47 · U-221 ▶
Arguing against a position the opponent disowned Pool attributes to Wilson the claim that the universe is part of God and presses it ('that's what you just said', 'so God is illogical?') though Wilson expressly said the opposite ('No, it's not the universe. The universe had a creator'). Resolved against the transcript: the attributed position was disowned. Medium confidence.−5CLEAN
P7 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-207 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−3CRUXCould-vs-would distinctionraised by Andrew · Tim half-answered it · at 19:22 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The paradox dissolves because God 'would not' act against his nature, and whether he 'could' is irrelevant. Defend or refute that this resolves it.
“So he can do it. He doesn't want to do it.”Tim Pool · 19:16 · U-263 ▶
Confronted part of it Pool engages the could/would move rather than dropping it: he extracts that if God 'could but wouldn't', that concedes God could, which he treats as vindicating his original claim. He does not fully develop why the distinction fails beyond dismissal.−3DIS
the math ▸importance ×2 × (1 − 0.5 earned) = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −3 DIS
P3 · importance ×2 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-242 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0God is timeless (Alpha and Omega)raised by Andrew · Tim confronted it · at 20:13 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Because God is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end simultaneously, time cannot apply to him. Defend or refute.
“If it has a beginning and has an end, it has time.”Tim Pool · 20:13 · U-287 ▶
Confronted the point Pool refutes the timeless inference with a reason: something with a beginning and an end has time; he denies 'not necessarily' that Alpha-and-Omega entails timelessness.3DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3 DIS earned in full
P13 · importance ×1 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-280 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0God cannot be ultimate evilraised by Clip/other · Tim confronted it · at 22:36 ▸▸
THE CRUX: God cannot be the ultimate evil because the maximal negative attributes (e.g. selfishness vs anger) logically conflict. Defend or refute.
“the White Lantern Corps is the merger of all the attributes into one. They all simultaneously coexist.”Tim Pool · 22:37 · U-314 ▶
Confronted the point Pool denies the conflicting-attributes premise, arguing (via the White Lantern example he was handed) that maximal attributes can merge and coexist rather than conflict.3DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3 DIS earned in full
P10 · importance ×1 · raised by Clip/other at U-299 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−2.6CRUXScripture: God does not changeraised by Perceptual · Tim talked around it · at 23:49 ▸▸
PJTHE CRUX: Scripture ('I the Lord do not change', Malachi 3:6) establishes immutability as part of God's nature, counting against a God who changes the rules. Defend or refute.
“Do we know 100%? That is a great question. Do we know God so absolutely that we can perceive him in full?”Tim Pool · the cited response · 23:06 · U-321 ▶ · full turn ▸
Talked around it Pool pivoted to whether we can know God fully and to not being a Christian rather than engaging whether Malachi's 'I do not change' establishes immutability against a rules-changing God. The scripture's content was never addressed. What the crux required was never addressed.−2.6DIS
the math ▸importance ×1 × (1 − 0.15 earned) = 0.9 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −2.6 DIS
P21 · importance ×1 · raised by Perceptual Jonathan at U-317 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim+2DEALTAndrew−3.1CRUXComplexity progression implies a creatorraised by Tim · Andrew talked around it · at 30:00 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The observed progression of matter into ever-more-complex systems (entropy/ectropy) mathematically implies a singular higher power/creator. Defend or refute.
“Yeah, it's just the watchmaker argument. So you just say, well, if you were a person who had no understanding of technology, but you found a watch on a beach and you picked it up, you would infer creation just by the way that the watch operates. It's the same argument.”Andrew Wilson · the cited response · 24:20 · U-337 ▶ · full turn ▸
Talked around it Wilson engaged the thread extensively but by cross-examination and characterisation (labelling it the watchmaker argument, drawing out entailments); he never affirmed or denied whether the complexity progression mathematically implies a creator. The crux required a ruling on that inference. What the crux required was never addressed.−3.1DIS
the math ▸importance ×2 × (1 − 0.15 earned) = 1.7 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −3.1 DIS
“molecules come to a point where, and this is a gap for human knowledge, we don't know why at some point molecules will become self-replicating proteins.”Tim Pool · 26:09 · U-346 ▶
Acknowledged a gap in one's own argument In the middle of his own complexity-progression argument Pool flags an unresolved gap ('we don't know why') rather than papering over it. Medium confidence.+2DEALT
P15 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-336 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0Pool's argument is the watchmaker argumentraised by Andrew · Tim confronted it · at 24:40 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Pool's inference from cosmic order to a creator is equivalent to the classical watchmaker/fine-tuning argument. Defend the equivalence or refute (Pool: 'it is literally not').
“The argument is that there is negative entropy, ectropy, and there is entropy, and that ectropy only exists in greater elements of entropy.”Tim Pool · 24:40 · U-340 ▶
Confronted the point Pool refutes the equivalence to the watchmaker argument, distinguishing his entropy/ectropy claim from a design-from-order inference.3DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3 DIS earned in full
P16 · importance ×1 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-337 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0The creating power has consciousness and purposeraised by Andrew · Tim confronted it · at 30:59 ▸▸
THE CRUX: The creating power possesses consciousness and acts with purpose. Defend or refute.
“obviously there is a calculation of a higher power consciousness beyond ours.”Tim Pool · 31:25 · U-370 ▶
Confronted the point Pool affirms the crux proposition, stating the creating power has consciousness and acts with purpose.3DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×1 = 1 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3 DIS earned in full
P17 · importance ×1 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-365 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Andrew−1.5CRUXHumans have free willraised by Tim · Andrew talked around it · at 32:17 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Humans have genuine free will rather than a fully predetermined existence. Defend or refute.
“Well, this is really strange though. You think we have free will too?”Andrew Wilson · the cited response · 32:13 · U-375 ▶ · full turn ▸
Talked around it Wilson responded only with surprised questions ('You think we have free will too?', 'You don't think it's predetermined?') and never stated or defended a position on whether humans have free will. The crux required affirming or refuting genuine free will. What the crux required was never addressed.−1.5DIS
the math ▸importance ×1 × (1 − 0.15 earned) = 0.9 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −1.5 DIS
P18 · importance ×1 · raised by Tim Pool at U-374 ▶ · read it in the transcript
±0Good is creating/expanding life; entropy is evilraised by Tim · Andrew confronted it · at 33:44 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Good = creating/protecting/expanding complex systems (life); being a force of entropy/destruction is evil. Defend or refute.
“you have Aztecs who are ... sacrificing it to their god ... they are way more likely to breed. You have now expanded life.”Andrew Wilson · 33:47 · U-379 ▶
Confronted the point Wilson refutes the criterion by counterexample: sacrifice that increases breeding would count as expanding life under Pool's rule yet is evil, pressing the reconciliation.3.6DIS · earned in full
the math ▸importance ×2 = 2 of 25 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = 3.6 DIS earned in full
P19 · importance ×2 · raised by Tim Pool at U-378 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Tim−5.1CRUXAztec sacrifice counterexampleraised by Andrew · Tim talked around it · at 34:00 ▸▸
THE CRUX: Human sacrifice that increases breeding/population would count as 'expanding life' under Pool's criterion, yet is evil: reconcile or revise the criterion.
“Yes. Yin yang.”Tim Pool · the cited response · 34:00 · U-380 ▶ · full turn ▸
Talked around it Pool responded to the counterexample only with an undeveloped invocation of his framework ('Yes. Yin yang.') as the transcript ends; he did not reconcile the sacrifice case with or revise the expanding-life criterion. What the crux required was never addressed.−5.1DIS
the math ▸importance ×2 × (1 − 0.15 earned) = 1.7 of 15 weighted challenge points · × 45% (crux share of DIS) = −5.1 DIS
P20 · importance ×2 · raised by Andrew Wilson at U-379 ▶ · read it in the transcript
Read the full transcript: every turn, every ruling in place →
Interruptions & other conduct not tied to a point (2 events)
−0.5
Interruption to rebut (Interruption · Pool) med confidencePool cuts into Wilson's unfinished sentence to score a point. Flat floor foul, medium confidence, in a rapid crossfire format where cut-ins are frequent on both sides.
Andrew Wilson 15:02 · U-006 ▶: “I'm not even making arguments to you right now. All I'm doing is expressing to you—”
Tim Pool 0:16 · U-007 ▶: “God is not all-powerful.”
−0.5
Interruption to rebut (Interruption · Wilson) med confidenceWilson cuts into Pool's unfinished sentence to label the point. Flat floor foul, medium confidence; the mirror of Pool's cut-in in the same crossfire.
Tim Pool 4:26 · U-047 ▶: “When God says, thou shalt not—”
Andrew Wilson 4:27 · U-048 ▶: “That's a duty.”
Scored against published DIS Rubric v0.11: tap any point for the crux, the verdict, and the receiptsSteelmanned
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18 ATTACKED · 18 SUSTAINED · 0 DEMOTEDEvery verdict was independently attacked before publication; low-confidence events are excluded from the score.

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